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Re: reducing "time to setup"--

>  the idea is to figure out what set of notes will sound good under a
> longer progression.

The Root and its Five are a good place to start as these are the main 
tipping points in harmonic progression.    But, really, you can use any 
diatonic pattern as long as you don’t stack up intervals in the initial 

Most of my looping stuff is modal or half- modal but I have had good luck  
using the following workflow to create  quick song form arrangement in a 
diatonic harmony context:

Button 1 (Creates Loop 1) Record First loop; a drum voice and/or looping 
ostinato line.  This first loop HAS NO CHORDAL CONTENT - it can play 
continuously through out the workflow. 

Button 2 (Advances Loop and while entering multiply record (in Mobius- 
Advance Loop/Empty Loop action= multiply) This second loop gets the 
chordal content of the “A” section.    

Button 3 (End Multiply record, advance Loop, Copy Audio from previous 
loop,  and shuffle / slice to create a reordering of the chords for the 
“B” Section.

The looper now holds three loops.  The first is just the groove elements.  
Great for  breakdowns, solo passages, endings… etc.  The 2nd and 3rd parts 
are song form with Chord changes played over the ostinato / groove parts.  

There are lots of possible next steps from here that can add further 
interest to the form, middle eight sections, breakdowns, tension building 
fills, outro loops, etc.—

For instance, I like to run rhythmic delays on the initial loop Track.  
They remain bypassed until I hold down a sustain switch.  When holding 
down the switch, the delays create drum fills and stutter patterns in the 
initial short loop;  this lets me build and release tension on the fly.  
The longer chordal loops are unaffected.  The effect is as though the 
drummer is responding with more / less activity in response to waning / 
waxing tension in the harmonic progression.    

Also, I like to round the ending of the longer chordal loop to create 
short outro passages and tags.  For instance, a 16 bar song form loop can 
be foreshortened to include only the  the last four bars to tag the ending 
or create a solo section.

I am a mobius guy these days.  But some version of this workflow can be 
applied with looping platforms that have support for slice / shuffle.   




On  Dec 6, 2013, at 9:15 AM, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Daniel,
> I don't use mobius at this point, though I am curious, but your
> suggestion reminds me of something.
> I've played a little with the idea of creating a short musical loop
> which works well under my entire chord progression. So, for example,
> if you arpegiate an a chord adding a D in the arpegio, you can play a
> progression of A f#m D and E over the arpegio and it all sounds good.
> So the idea is to figure out what set of notes will sound good under a
> longer progression. It's similar to the idea of a drone which can also
> work nicely if you use a 1/5 drone and then play chords around this
> interval sometimes turning the 1/5 in to a 1/4 relationship.
> I am not at all a music theoritician, but these practical issues
> interest me. :-)
> Rusty
> On 12/6/13, Daniel Thomas <danielthomas4@mac.com> wrote:
>> Another approach to speeding ramp time on a live loop performance—
>> --utilize a Shuffle script to reorder the bars of your initial loop in 
>> order
>> to create a B section or a C section.  If you are clever about relative
>> major/minor relationships, you can get at most diatonic chord 
>> professions
>> this way.
>> There is a useful Mobius script in the Circular Labs forum that will 
>> cut the
>> loop into a specified number of bars (Slices) and then reorder the 
>> slices
>> according to a sequence of bar numbers.  If you decide to go the Mobius
>> route, reach out to me offline and I will share several relevant scripts
>> with you.
>> Daniel
>> On Dec 6, 2013, at 8:33 AM, Rusty Perez <rustys.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks folks for all of your input ... and output. :-)
>>> Amy, I'm with you on this idea that the building is also interesting
>>> and entertaining for the audience, and so long as it is intentional
>>> and musical, it's cool.
>>> I'm a bit averse to using previously recorded material, in large part
>>> because I'm a bit forgetful and adhd and, well, i might not like it
>>> again the 10th time around and I might want to change the tempo or
>>> repetitions. :-) The only time I've used a prerecorded loop was at a
>>> wedding one time when they wanted a particular song played during the
>>> processional, and I had to play melody, and didn't want to loop the
>>> backing there on the spot. It worked.
>>> That having been said, I like this idea of having only certain
>>> elements, snippets of things which may then be prerecorded and looped,
>>> or brought in and out. So the performance becomes the spontaneous
>>> arrangement.
>>> I'll definitely have to look in to a looper with the multiply
>>> functions. I need a new looper anyway. I think I've outgrown my RC20.
>>> 8)
>>> At this point, about the only options I have with that are
>>> overdubbing, or starting a song cold, singing and playing, and then
>>> recording and looping a section of guitar as I'm playing. So that
>>> another guitar just magically appears in the mix. That's pretty fun.
>>> I'm enjoying this thread!
>>> Thanks!
>>> Rusty
>>> On 12/6/13, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 06/12/2013 00:03, Amy X Neuburg wrote:
>>>>> The most basic answer is: without any sort of "cheating" there is no
>>>>> way
>>>>> to minimize the ramp-up,
>>>> while I disagree with the above.......
>>>>> So my best advice is to think carefully about each individual layer 
>>>>> to
>>>>> make sure it is in itself musical.
>>>> .....that's  spot on.
>>>> ( worth applying to non-looped music too! )
>>>> Plus learn to go directly into overdub without waiting for the layers 
>>>> to
>>>> "go
>>>> round",
>>>> that makes a big difference.
>>>> Apart from that there's any number of techniques, but the main one for
>>>> a more regular type structure is this:-
>>>> Depending on the capability of your looper, the early layers can be
>>>> much
>>>> shorter in length
>>>>    than the "final loop"
>>>>    for example:-
>>>>           i) record a one bar rhythm (percussion)
>>>>           ii) record a 2 bar bass line, simple enough to underpin a
>>>> more
>>>> complex harmony
>>>>           iii) then you can add a chordal part 16bars, 32 bars
>>>> ...whatever
>>>>    If the looping device is so designed it lets you do all that on
>>>>    just one loop, using something called "Multiply" or "Re-Sample".
>>>>    Otherwise it's necessary add loops to get that.
>>>> Also  just take time to check out some of the guys on this list and 
>>>> note
>>>> how
>>>> *they* do it.
>>>>    Usually this means some kind of interaction with technology...the
>>>> loop
>>>> device gets to be an instrument.
>>>>> You can also cheat,
>>>> It's just my own aesthetic here, but if you're going to pre-record
>>>> significant bits
>>>> why not just pre record all of it?
>>>>> In putting out my songs on CD I occasionally shorten the lead-in time
>>>> To edit a loop performance for repeated listening is not uncommon.
>>>>> My way too many cents.
>>>> not at all...appreciated
>>>> Andy